THX1138 = Alphaville = George Orwell`s 1984

[russ]

the more I study the films lucus himself was watching at the time,I can see thatTHX 1138 it seems to have taken most of the ideas of the movie Alphaville (1965), which in turn took the ideas from the book 1984 by George Orwell.

[DM Corleone]

the more I study the films lucus himself was watching at the time,I can see thatTHX 1138 it seems to have taken most of the ideas of the movie Alphaville (1965), which in turn took the ideas from the book 1984 by H.G. Wells written in 1938.

I thought that 1984 was written by George Orwell in 1948.

But, I do see many of the themes from 1984 (whoever its author may be) in THX-1138.

Alphaville I am not familiar with.  I will have to check that out.

-Don

[russ]

yes your right about George Orwell, I was thinking about the book "Mind at the End of Its Teather" by H.G. Wells

you should watch Alphaville, directed by Jean-Luc Godard, Lucas mentions Godard on the DVD interview on the THX 1138 2004 release.
Godard`s films have the same visual style as THX 1138, people moving in and out of the frame, symbols and graphics play a strong role like numbers flashing on and off, it`s like a hidding visual language.

what I was trying to do was track Lucas`s and the first screen writers source, for the ideas in THX 1138.

http://www.lafn.org/~cymbala/alphavil.html

check this out Donald Pleasance plays the character "Syme" in the BBC radio play 1984, http://www.action-tv.org.uk/guides/1984.htm

Donald Pleasance plays "SEN" in THX 1138, very close to "Syme", I need to study 1984 more, but I think the two characters are close, in the way they work for the government but try to take make changes that put them in trouble.

http://www.geocities.com/pleasence/television/1984/1984.html

from the url above,  this quote about Pleasance`s role as "SYME":

"Donald Pleasence really catches the eye immediately as Syme, right from the word go in the café scene as he questions Winston about razor blades with a very calculated air of ambiguity -- we are not sure whether he is trying to trick Winston into giving an incriminating answer or making a genuine enquiry. This very shifty and unknowable nature of Syme's character is something that shines through in Pleasence's portrayal in the early part of the play."

Like SEN 5241, in THX 1138, Pleasance (SYME) works with the system, but is later done in by the same system.
and this..

His conversation with Winston about Newspeak -- "it's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words" is a powerful performance by Pleasence, not simply because of the horror of the notion of the destruction of ideas by the lack of words to express them, but because in Pleasence's portrayal Syme is not simply a man doing his job, but a man who loves his job and who loves talking about it. This love of working for such a disgusting regime ought to make us dislike Syme immediately, but despite this cold side to him there is still something very human about him, and it is a tribute to Pleasence's skill that we are able to see this, perhaps best of all in his mockery of the woman serving the stew in the canteen -- "them's stew with salt, them's stew without..."


and this:

"Of course, as with Winston and Parsons, even Syme is not safe from the Thought Police. Pleasence's most powerful scene in the production undoubtedly comes when Winston meets him sitting blankly in front of a chess problem in the Chestnut Tree Café. When Winston asks about Syme being a member of the chess club, he breaks down completely, explaining how he has been expelled from all Party duties and activities -- particularly the chess club -- because of a Thought Crime, something he is totally at a loss to explain. Syme's complete break down and his pleas to Winston, who quickly abandons him for fear of being incriminated, are a powerful contrast to the character's cool, controlled, implacable manner in the earlier scenes. The final image of Syme, being dragged away by the Thought Police, are perhaps some of the most affecting in the entire play, because if Syme, a party man through and through who loved the corrupting work Big Brother set him to, can be 'got', then nobody is safe. As Winston later explains, Syme is not even dead -- he never even existed. He is erased from all records, an 'un-person'."

this is just like THX 1138, when Pleasance "SEN 5241" is also trying to understand were he went wrong with "ohm" or you could say "Big Brother"

[Julien Dupire]

Yes, probably George Lucas took Godard's ideas for THX 1138. As many young cinema students in the 60's, he discovered the French Nouvelle Vague, which featured a critical political speach. Actually, Alphaville was the only sci-fi movie Godard made, and it was a diversion of a film noir series: the adventures of Lemmy Caution played by Eddie Constantine (Godard, as Truffaut or Chabrol, is a fan of old American, genre cinema).

But I think there's more than some Orwell stuff in THX 1138. The universe Lucas created is more a mix between the worst of 1984 (watching, punishing, manipulation) and the worst of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World (drugs, consumption society on contrary of the "organized shortage" of 1984).

The opposition between Orwell and Huxley is very symbolic. It can be seen as the Cold War: a Huxley world (West) versus an Orwell world (East).

For me SEN is closer to an Orwell character as O'Brien... :?

[Sant]

Have you read Brave New World from Aldous Huxley??? there many things in the movie taken from this book, the most clear are the embrions in the blue glass jar (in fact the whole idea is very similar)

and i think that the guy who made the island (the one with ewan mc gregor) took one or two ideas from lucas' film  


Sant

Blessings of the state!

[SMH1982]

Lol, "The Island" should have been called "THX-1138: Reloaded" or "THX-1138: Revolutions" :p

[DM Corleone]

"The Island" should have been called "THX-1138: Reloaded" or "THX-1138: Revolutions"

What about "THX-1137"?

-Don

[jal6662]

Blessings of the State All:

Very interesting discussion.

I always exclude 1984 and BNW from THX, due to the circumstances of creation. Where 1984 and BNW are extreme evolution(or devolution)of societies to the left and right respectivly. THX and Logan's Run are similar, due to the premise that this is for the survival of the masses.

The Island, although being a close to the other four, is constructed for the purpose of making money.

I actually find SEN more closely aligned with Parsons, someone who just wanted to work within the system, supporting the system and trusting the system, even when it sentences him to death.

[DM Corleone]

I see your point about SEN and his trust of the system ... poor, deluded soul!

I liked "The Island" as an interesting explanation for the world of THX.  I know it was made for money (as was THX-1138 - Warner Bros. doesn't make movies just to get a message across), but the similarity is striking.  The world of THX fits into "The Island."  THX-1138 looks at it from within.  "The Island" looks at the same world from without.

-Don

[jal6662]

I was talking about the fictional genesis of The Island. It was obviously greed, where THX was some disaster, probably nuclear in nature, thinking of the 1970s and the "The Day After" mentality.

I draw the parallel of the two characters in their final scenes, both surrendering to their masters in resignation and obedience.

[DM Corleone]

Oops ...  I misunderstood completely.

The "genesis" of the two worlds depends on how you view the movies.  Are you looking at them as a work of fiction, with a cast of actors portraying parts, written and directed by people outside of the picture?  Or, are you looking at them as you do in the theater, with suspended disbelief, seeing it as a view of a reality, with real people living real lives.

Sometimes with THX I drift away from the first view and let myself just view it as reality.  In that mode, I can see THX and The Island as two views of the same reality.

Or, maybe, I am just "off my rocker."

-Don

[jal6662]

Your not off your rocker, well, we all are a little.

I look at it as if it was real. If this domed world existed, why? What happened to make this world? If I was to be JAL6662, what would my life be like? Also, looking at it from an historical perspective, what is the history of this world.

When I first moved to the East Bay of San Francisco, I travelled through the Caldecott Tunnel and traveled on BART. I remember mentioning to my wife that it felt like I had seen this somewhere. Of course, after watch THX again, it all became clear. Especially travelling on BART, it gives you a very surreal feeling.

[DM Corleone]

Re: BART -

Sweet!  You should be able to see quite a few THX sites in CA.  The interior of one of Frank Lloyd Wright's office buildings comes to mind.  (Marrin County?  Someone can correct me on this).  It was the same building used in the film Gattica.

-Don

[jal6662]

Yes, It sure was.

[DM Corleone]

So, you have walked where THX walked?  Wow, and you made it out of the white void!   

-Don