Does THX die?

[R Jackson]

This is an old argument, but I saw the film again last week in San Francisco (still don't exactly know how I feel about some of the changes) and it's been brought to my mind again.

You know the scene where THX is laying on the ground being controlled by the two guys who we only hear in voice over? He's twitching and writhing around on the ground while they discuss the way the old and new consoles operate and I think they accidentally kill THX in that scene. After that he's reunited with LUH and then LUH is taken away from him and he interacts with other inmates, meets someone we've seen him watching on his entertainment system, engages in a chase and finally escapes. I think all of that is his last fragments of consciousness trying to make some sense of his world.

Now running against that idea is that some of the things that happen in those later scenes are more objective than the kind of subjective reality you'd expect if it were all an internal experience. So I don't know. And I've never heard Lucas say anything about it. So obviously I could be completely wrong, but seeing it again this week I couldn't help thinking about it again and I still think it might be the case.

[SG]

With the exception of the fact that SEN's journey is also examined, you're idea is a perfect example of how compelling the film is.
I doubt that you're take on that is accurate, but as I said, if it weren't for the cutting scenes of SEN's attempt to conform - it would be completely plausible.  Very imaginative on your part.

[R Jackson]

With the exception of the fact that SEN's journey is also examined, you're idea is a perfect example of how compelling the film is.
I doubt that you're take on that is accurate, but as I said, if it weren't for the cutting scenes of SEN's attempt to conform - it would be completely plausible.  Very imaginative on your part.

Well, like I said there's some stuff in the last half of the movie that doesn't exactly support it. The cuts to the subplot about the budgetary limitations fall into the same kind of zone as SEN's journey, but dream imagery often jumps around. It could still work. Or not. ;-)

As you say, though, just the fact that the narrative is open enough to bring the possiblity to mind is a testament to how compelling the film is.

[R Jackson]

BTW, I picked up the DVD today and was watching it again. It seems to me that the line, "Dissolution occured at 4.6" is the operator acknowledging THX's death. Then we see THX laid out on the floor and dissolve to scenes that occur in his mind. I dunno...it's really always seemed that way to me.

[SG]

It seems to me that the line, "Dissolution occured at 4.6" is the operator acknowledging THX's death.

Well, I thought of that as just the ultimate punch-line in a scene that, if you recall the commentary, Lucas had a comedian help write.

This scene, which you take as pivotal, I always found it hilarious and thought provocing at the same time.  The apitomy of the entire theme of the film:  Nobody has a clue.  Even the people "in charge" are just showing up for work and goofing up.  While THX metaphorically contorts like a puppet under their "control".

Now - I always felt that line - "Yes, but dissolution occured at 4.5..." just meant unconciousness set in.  I wasn't sure what the word "dissolution" meant.
In response to this thread, I grabbed the dictionary.  The definition of dissolution fits into you theory - but this could also be construed as unconciousness simply.
It turns out that another spelling of this phonetic is DISILLUSION which, according to Merriam/Webster, means TO LEAVE WITHOUT ILLUSION OR NAIVE FAITH OR TRUST.  
Interesting...

[R Jackson]

"Disillusion"...that's an interesting one.

The last half of the movie has all the signposts of the traditional near-death experience. I think that's a big part of why it works that way for me. You know, he's reunited with major characters from his life and given a chance to gain some measure of closure with them. He kind of sorts out the meaning of his life and takes control of it. And finally he travels down a long corridor (vertical though it may be) towards a bright light at the end of his journey. His pursuers can't follow him down the length of this corridor. He has to make the trip alone. At the end as he's silhouetted against the sun there's significant distortion of the image and I always see that as the final "dissolution" of consciousness.

All of which, I guess, would make the film even more of a downer than people have accused it of being. ;-)

Still, if he's still alive there's kind of an imbalance between the very logical first half of the movie and a second half that doesn't seem to play by any rules.

[DM Corleone]

Still, if he's still alive there's kind of an imbalance between the very logical first half of the movie and a second half that doesn't seem to play by any rules.

It fits that there is no logic or rules to the second half, since in the second half, THX is no longer playing by the rules.  He is running and escaping.

He runs from the police, where in the first half, he would have simply surrendered to them.

He steals a car (if anything in THX's society is ever owned) and disobeyes all warnings to stop.

This, to me, seems the crux of the movie:  Freedom & Danger vs. Security & Submission.  In the first half of the movie, THX is certainly under Submission, but at the same time he is safe.  In the second half, he is Free (or running to Freedom) but he is in danger all the way.

Just the mumblings of an old man . . .

-Don

[THX-1138]

Lucas' mentions in the audio commentary that in the final scene with the sunset they decided to include a bird flying across the sky as an indication that there is hope for THX outside the underground society.

[Dervish]

It's a very interesting theory, but I think the one thing that runs counter to it is the sunset. Unless the citizens of this dystopia are given history and information of the past, how could he imagine such a thing out a life living indoors?

It's like the Decartes argument, how could divinity not be real if we can preceive the infinite? That in itself probably has loads of counterpoints, and I just necroposted again, Sorry

[DM Corleone]

I just necroposted again, Sorry

No need to appologize to me, I am glad there is still life in this forum.

-Don

[dcc-9547]

its my opinion that THX lives after that...experiment, if we can call it that. because if he was dead they would have closed the 'THX-1138 ACCOUNT' long time ago. Also if you listen closley THX was flipping channels and one of them sounded like a nature program "....dragons hunt like this" could the hologram be talking about a Kimono Dragon? if so, then it is quite possible that the people have knowledge of the outside world.